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brownmk19

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Weed Beds
« on: May 31, 2016, 12:53:53 PM »
I guess this is sort of a strange topic, but I haven't posted here in a while and thought I'd see if I could get a discussion going. I spent the Memorial Day weekend at a remote hunting cabin in Pike County. On the property is a large pond similar to Stevens or Fords: relatively shallow with tons of flooded timber & stumps and some nice mats of lily pads. The pond is chock full of bass, big perch and some gills. We took our kayaks up to fish. One morning as I glided the kayak over the mat of lily pads beginning to grow off the bottom, I was astonished by the amount of life to be found in a forest of underwater weeds. With the help of polarized glasses, I saw schools of juvenile bluegills, perch, dozens of tadpoles and other salamander like critters swimming about. It was simply amazing how a small patch of weeds cultivates such a dense and diverse group of fish and life. The water was gin clear and I also caught glimpses of predators such as small bass and a couple big pickerel as the cruised the edges of the bed. What was also noteworthy was how the predators clearly aligned themselves with irregularities within the weed bed. The bass patrolled the edges of the bed, but they also hung around a random stump located among the pads. The predators also seemed to favor any abnormality, however small. A slight cut/opening/funnel in the middle of bed was where I spotted a big pickerel sulking and small open pockets throughout the bed yielded bass. Anything that deviated from the straight line seemed to be a preference point for the predators, perhaps serving as an ambush point or a funnel area for smaller fish. I  think what I saw reinforces my belief in the "structure on the structure" mentality, in that every good spot has a hot spot contained within the structure. For example, a stump filled flat with a pothole area a few feet deeper than the surrounding water or a reef adjacent to deep water with a smaller weed bed on the reef. My fishing experience has also deepened my belief that most good areas have an even better area contained within them.

We had a great time and caught dozens of bass and some slammer perch.

Well, that's my story. Not every interesting or groundbreaking. Fishing ain't rocket science, for sure. But I thought it may be worth sharing........to see if anyone else had something to add.


NYPA FISHING

Weed Beds
« on: May 31, 2016, 12:53:53 PM »

Spider1

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2016, 01:14:32 PM »
the way I always figured it was that small fish like tangled structures to hide in while predators like edges. They will hang out in thick stuff and watch the edges of clear areas for anything that moves. I've caught a lot of bass near lily pads. The bass would tuck into the lilly pads and look out waiting for anything stupid enough to swim by.

zziipp

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2016, 02:48:56 PM »
Good ambush and cover from the sun.

chez

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2016, 06:12:21 AM »
I have one question????
When you taking me for some of those Perch??,,
Great story,,,dont cut yourself short,
I FOUND IT VERY INTERESTING. :)
What turned out to be a Joke,The Law Dogs  Dont Understand!!!!

NYPA FISHING

Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2016, 06:12:21 AM »

perchgypsy

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2016, 09:17:20 AM »
Yes good write up,pickerel and bass seem to have the shallows down pat
if it's weeds small humps or whichever cover they adapt well to a feeding pattern
as bass seem to hug bottom feeding up pickerel seem to be all over the water column feeding in every directions
healthy panfish is always a plus in small bodies of water

Spider1

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2016, 10:50:40 AM »
I saw an article someplace, maybe the on-line infisherman mag. But the put about a dozen bass in a round swimming pool. No color differences, nothing different. The fish basically went wherever. Then they add a pole. The fish gathered by it. They took the pole out and overhung some plywood. The fish gathered under it. They put the board on the bottom in the middle and again the fish gathered over it. Then they took it all out and the fish dispersed. Pretty much, they are pre-programmed to find structure of some sort.

pabassman

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2016, 04:02:28 PM »
I guess this is sort of a strange topic, but I haven't posted here in a while and thought I'd see if I could get a discussion going. I spent the Memorial Day weekend at a remote hunting cabin in Pike County. On the property is a large pond similar to Stevens or Fords: relatively shallow with tons of flooded timber & stumps and some nice mats of lily pads. The pond is chock full of bass, big perch and some gills. We took our kayaks up to fish. One morning as I glided the kayak over the mat of lily pads beginning to grow off the bottom, I was astonished by the amount of life to be found in a forest of underwater weeds. With the help of polarized glasses, I saw schools of juvenile bluegills, perch, dozens of tadpoles and other salamander like critters swimming about. It was simply amazing how a small patch of weeds cultivates such a dense and diverse group of fish and life. The water was gin clear and I also caught glimpses of predators such as small bass and a couple big pickerel as the cruised the edges of the bed. What was also noteworthy was how the predators clearly aligned themselves with irregularities within the weed bed. The bass patrolled the edges of the bed, but they also hung around a random stump located among the pads. The predators also seemed to favor any abnormality, however small. A slight cut/opening/funnel in the middle of bed was where I spotted a big pickerel sulking and small open pockets throughout the bed yielded bass. Anything that deviated from the straight line seemed to be a preference point for the predators, perhaps serving as an ambush point or a funnel area for smaller fish. I  think what I saw reinforces my belief in the "structure on the structure" mentality, in that every good spot has a hot spot contained within the structure. For example, a stump filled flat with a pothole area a few feet deeper than the surrounding water or a reef adjacent to deep water with a smaller weed bed on the reef. My fishing experience has also deepened my belief that most good areas have an even better area contained within them.

We had a great time and caught dozens of bass and some slammer perch.

Well, that's my story. Not every interesting or groundbreaking. Fishing ain't rocket science, for sure. But I thought it may be worth sharing........to see if anyone else had something to add.

 Nice read. Some nice observations.  Those irregularities are often the key. There are several fav areas I fish on different lakes. It might be a 50 yard stretch that I like. There is usually that little"spot on the spot". It is like you said. A tiny outcrop along a straight rocky bank, a bend or point in a weedbed, a single dock. On the Pack where you get a fall drawdown its worth the effort to check out spots that produced earlier in the season. We have caught fish all summer in an area but never knew why. Low water revealed a couple big boulders along the shore of smaller rocks that were in 5 feet of water in the summer. Other times we could see stumps we never knew were there. Those little sweet spots replenish with fish pretty quickly too.

zziipp

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2016, 02:27:40 PM »
Top 10 percents are the ones who make those observations. The other 90 percent wonder why they can't catch fish on a regular basis. Just like fishing the susky now when the water is low you can mentally mark holes and structure for eyes in the fall when the water is higher. It means it's in your dna. Great post brownmk19.

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2016, 02:27:40 PM »

brownmk19

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2016, 01:14:33 AM »
The feedback is much appreciated guys! It's good to see interaction on this forum. I think that's what has always made hunting/fishing so appealing to me - the constant game of cat and mouse. Even better, the game is so dynamic. There are so many variables at play. Half the battle can be trying to figure out how important each variable is on any given day and then figuring out how each variable interacts with one another. Water temperature, prevalent forage, season, weather, water level, etc, etc, etc.


I also think that some folks lose sight of what fishing is really about. I know a few guys who can recite the number of ball bearings found in a $300 Shimano spinning reel and have the Bass Pro catalog memorized page by page. I'm only slightly exaggerating here  ::)

But if your goal is to actually catch fish, then the reality is that being a "gearhead" isn't going to catch you any more fish. I've been outfished more often than I'd like to admit by someone who's gear cost less than half of some of my stuff. Why? Simple - because they put in the TIME and EFFORT. What did they catch them on? EXPERIENCE.

Know your quarry. Or your enemy for that manner. Know where the fish tend to set up to ambush prey. Know their preferred water temperature and where they might go to seek it, kow what they prefer to eat, know how they relate to structure, know how their movements change daily and seasonally. Point being I suppose, that none of this critical knowledge can be acquired by flipping through a Cabela's catalog. Ya gotta get out there and go fishing. Simply put, I often go fishing and catch a big slice of humble pie, but even the days I don't catch anything, I ALWAYS learn SOMETHING.


I guess that's why I wrote my original post. It's truly amazing what you can learn just by drifting across the water and paying attention to what's happening around you. The knowledge seems to be there for the taking. We just have to get our ass off the couch, go fish............and listen to what the fish are saying  ;D


Just a quick note, PA BASSMAN - You hit the nail on the head regarding fluctuating water levels! I fish a local lake similar to the Pack that sees rather dramatic water level flucuations through the year. It's really impressive seeing where the fish where and how they related to structure when the water is low. The lightbulb goes off for sure!

HenryDavid

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2016, 12:15:05 PM »
That's why I prefer fishing the Susky and other rivers wading as opposed to being in a boat.  You can get a good look at what's in the water, kick up some rocks, see up close what's going on.   You also can get a better view of what insects are around and if fish are taking them. 

perchgypsy

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2016, 07:32:26 PM »
Very interesting conversation,well told by all,and like said money only gets you so far in the outdoors ,it's the observant ones who get the payout,
Yet like the old saying goes
a man can fish for a lifetime and never realize it wasn't fish he was after....
so do you need high dollar setup to get out there or just the love for it...material things can be replaced...the love for the outdoors may it be fishing, hunting or just wondering around with a camera can't be takin away...good luck in whatever you love,I'm going fishing  ;D

chez

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2016, 07:45:05 PM »
Well said.PG.
End of Story.
What turned out to be a Joke,The Law Dogs  Dont Understand!!!!

NYPA FISHING

Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2016, 07:45:05 PM »

Spider1

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2016, 06:19:27 AM »
yeah, a lot of people attribute that phrase to Thoreau, but he actually never said or wrote it.

E.T. Brown wrote in 1955, “When they go fishing, it is not really fish they are after. It is a philosophic meditation.”

and Michael Baughman wrote in 1995,  “I think it was in Walden where he wrote that a lot of men fish all their lives without ever realizing that fish isn’t really what they’re after.”

Thoreau actually wrote-

It is remarkable that many men will go with eagerness to Walden Pond in the winter to fish for pickerel and yet not seem to care for the landscape. Of course it cannot be merely for the pickerel they may catch; there is some adventure in it; but any love of nature which they may feel is certainly very slight and indefinite. They call it going a-fishing, and so indeed it is, though perchance, their natures know better. Now I go a-fishing and a-hunting every day, but omit the fish and the game, which are the least important part. I have learned to do without them. They were indispensable only as long as I was a boy. I am encouraged when I see a dozen villagers drawn to Walden Pond to spend a day in fishing through the ice, and suspect that I have more fellows than I knew, but I am disappointed and surprised to find that they lay so much stress on the fish which they catch or fail to catch, and on nothing else, as if there were nothing else to be caught.

HenryDavid

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2016, 12:44:33 PM »
Nice post Spider.  There are literally thousands of synopsis of Thoreau's writing, where people have shortened his quotes or summarized the meaning. 

If one were to read the entire original essay on Walden Pond it could quite easily become dizzying very quickly as meticulous as his writing style could be at times.

His words are more meaningful today than ever, with many people living their entire existence in urban jungles, never experiencing the solitude of nature.  What gets to me is even many rural areas are too busy and noisy.  Head out to a state park on a day with nice weather and what do you get,  more noise.  It's as if they don't know how to appreciate nature, and they bring the noise with them.

It's maddening, and enough to drive a person to seek refuge deep in the woods and not to return to society at all.

Spider1

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Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2016, 01:55:10 PM »
state park campgrounds are more of a social gathering than a retreat to nature. I've had my fair share of campgrounds and rendezvous. And I've had my fair share of retreating to nature. I would say both have there place and they usually don't have much to do with one and other. It's like the mountain men living in the wild but having to gather every year at the rendezvous. People are drawn to it. Like bass to lily pads!

NYPA FISHING

Re: Weed Beds
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2016, 01:55:10 PM »

 

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